Feedback please for levelling system.

[Robert Lee]

There are some things about certain RPG's that really annoy me, for instance claiming 50 hours of game-play when they know that 40 hours of that will be level grinding simply so that you can beat the next end of level boss.

I want my game to focus on story, levelling up being a more minor issue with your increased abilities in battle having as much to do with better weapons/armour and new skills (and just as important using your skills cleverly).

So my system is very simple.... you never gain EXP... not once
BUT at certain points in the game you will level up whilst asleep.

What do you all think?

 

[Dad3353]

...
What do you all think?

I'm pretty new at this, so my views may be easily discounted. That said, I like the idea , but would suggest that it's an integral part of the game philosophy adopted; whether to control the game's advance, or have the Player control his/her own destiny. In the former, it's the Programmer that determines (I nearly wrote 'dictates..!') the stages, in the latter, some folks have patience, some do not, and play the game accordingly.
I'll definitely put this notion under my hat for another time, as it certainly has its merits. Best for every RPG..? I'm not sure that there's ever a 'one size fits all' solution. Nice idea; I doubt if I'd have thought of that; interesting...

 

[Robert Lee]

I see what you are saying Douglas. I do not want to dictate actions, the player can still repeat maps looking for extra drops from killed characters, what I want to get rid of is grinding and the style of RPG where the creators simply keep making enemies tougher which makes you have to grind your levels to stay ahead. I want the storyline to be more about the players choices; particularly ethical ones. The main character is an officer of the law.

At certain 'choke points' in the game. For example to get from area 1 to area 2 you have to pass through a particular town which has an Inn, by using a bit of storytelling, ie (the town gates are shut for the night) you force the player to sleep whereupon they level up. They wake up in the morning and the gates are all open. They could then proceed into area 2 or even go back into area 1.

The assumption I am making with the levelling up while they sleep is: in crossing area 1 to get to the 'pinch point' they will have gone through several maps and completed a number of tasks, been waylaid by bandits etc. There is more than one route through area 1 so the player does have freedom of choice. But in having gotten to the 'pinch point' they have justified the level increase.

 

[Dad3353]

No, I wasn't arguing against the idea, merely perusing on the different philosophies that can be brought into game play. Your idea sounds sound. When can we hope to see a Demo version, then..?

 

[Robert Lee]

When can we hope to see a Demo version, then..?

Soon I hope, I have a couple of friends playtesting and they are telling me that I need to make combat a bit more balanced as they have died and run out of healing!

 

[Dad3353]

Soon I hope, I have a couple of friends playtesting and they are telling me that I need to make combat a bit more balanced as they have died and run out of healing!

Maybe they need to 'grind' a bit more..?

 

[Tyrfang]

I'm myself working on a Project without Xp.
Battle gives no XP, and a dead character means a game over; I want the player to avoid battle as much as he can, because there is little to gain and much to lose.

Still, I'm using MrTs "Perks" plugin and I plan to give perks points to the player as the story progress.
This way the character will grow (and can even specialize) but no griding is required for that.

So, to give a clear answer to your question: I totally think that XP is not a vital part of a RPG.

 

[Robert Lee]

Thanks for the feedback, good to know I am not the only one thinking this way.

 

[MinisterJay]

I have made games that did not use an XP system. Some days had no level progress, at all. There were time when different stats could be modified. I also have had it where completion of certain activities led to level improvement. That is the beauty of using RPG Maker MV; we do not have to use what is comes with.

 

[Gemluv]

Though this is really late ( About 2 weeks at that)
I'd say you should give the players weapons that make the playing field easy.
Have them solve a tricky puzzle to find a more powerful weapon then the current one.
Add some special weaknesses to a boss the player could take advantage of.
Maybe a sword that could only kill the boss and after that it's tossed to the side or sold for currency.

Creativity is the answer.
I think the second paper Mario did this sorta well. Boss fights gave big exp. And I don't remember grinding too much.
Adding optional sidebosses for good amounts of exp would also work.

Ahh, I'm going on again arn't I?
Well best of luck to you! And I hope to play a demo soon myself

 

[CynicSyndrome]

There are some things about certain RPG's that really annoy me, for instance claiming 50 hours of game-play when they know that 40 hours of that will be level grinding simply so that you can beat the next end of level boss.

I want my game to focus on story, levelling up being a more minor issue with your increased abilities in battle having as much to do with better weapons/armour and new skills (and just as important using your skills cleverly).

So my system is very simple.... you never gain EXP... not once
BUT at certain points in the game you will level up whilst asleep.

What do you all think?

I had this idea too, but I think the answer is a bit of both.

 

[Status Gear Entertainment]

Not a lot of your amateur game developers out there making RPG Maker games focus on the leveling aspect of the game. This is where true game development rests because you need to think about how your game flows not just with a plot or secrets or features, but the flow of the leveling. You need to jump into your game, spend countless time just to see if the EXP-To-SPD is set at the pace you wish.

A lot of people don't focus soo much into this but have no idea in the long run what it can actually do to your game.

You could create a game that either:
1. Requires loads of grinding just to get to next area which is too slow or
2. Requires almost no effort of grinding and can possibly lead to an easy run-through game, losing the interest of the players because they feel like they aren't challenged enough or it's a joke.

If you truly wish to master the idea of leveling, you need to formulate, test, and adjust accordingly to each and every single enemy and area of the game. If you feel like the player shouldn't have to spend a lot of time getting to the next area with leveling, simply make a quick and easy ratio such as 1XP per enemy and you level around 5xp, 7xp, 10xp, etc. However, if you wish to keep the player in a place for a bit longer, to force them to look around more you should accumulate something similar to 1xp per enemy and you level around 13xp, 16xp, 20xp.

If you're wanting to have more control of the player level for progress of the game that is fine to, as long as it doesn't keep them in 1 part for too long nor does it allow the player to zip through the entire part with no effort. Like anything else in life, too much of anything is bad. You want to balance out everything.

~StatusGearEntertainment

 

[Wiskersthefif]

This is an interesting concept. It really depends on what kind of game you are aiming for: "I just want to tell a story", "I want to challenge my players", and a hybrid of the previous two (this one is very difficult, but also has the highest ceiling of success). Since you said you wanted to focus on story telling, I would assume that putting combat progression on the back burner would be alright. However, this puts an awful lot of pressure on your story to be captivating at all times, because of how the progression of the character's power is not in the player's control. It creates a kind of "autopilot" in regards to combat because of how the player always knows that they are always able to beat the enemies they face, which, in turn, kind of drains the sense of urgency they might have when fighting a tough enemy. Another pro for allowing grinding is that you can include extra challenges for the player (arena, hidden bosses, hidden areas, etc).

But all that being said, plenty of games don't even have a combat system and they are well regarded rpg maker games ("Too the Moon", "Corpse Party" [It's a guilty pleasure don't judge, haha], etc). If you are confident in your story keeping your player's attention then I would say go for it.

 

[hbn]

A similar concept was used in Final Fantasy 8 of sorts. It had levelling but all levels had about 2000 exp between and offered negligible attribute upgrades. Most of the attribute boosts were given through junctioning spells to said attributes and weapon upgrades. However, because your levels also affected enemy strengths, levelling up too soon is kinda discouraged since it can leave your character woefully underpowered and means grinding really isn't necessary. Of course this system can also be exploited (either intentionally or unintentionally) by players who can end up, through certain abilities, to get overpowered spells and stat bonuses for levelling up, thus making them quite overpowered early on in the game. All part of the parcel and depends on the play style of people.

It could be a quest system that might answer some of your concerns. Use levels in game but have enemies that offer pretty much no exp and quests that offer considerably more to appeal to people who prefer that sort of thing in game.

I don't particularly mind a bit of grinding, especially late/end game assuming it isn't endless hours of slogging away. Most RPGs have a level cap at 99, yet end game the typical level lies around 60-70 and are designed to allow but the most dedicated grinders get max level, except for a few others that have most player boosts come from passive/active skills and a game that I saw on Steam or something (though it's name currently evades me) that has no level cap and allows insanely high levels in excess of thousands and massive amounts of HP.

Good balance is the key to things. Most normal levelling should come over the course of the story.

 

[iblamevictoria]

There are some things about certain RPG's that really annoy me, for instance claiming 50 hours of game-play when they know that 40 hours of that will be level grinding simply so that you can beat the next end of level boss.

I want my game to focus on story, levelling up being a more minor issue with your increased abilities in battle having as much to do with better weapons/armour and new skills (and just as important using your skills cleverly).

So my system is very simple.... you never gain EXP... not once
BUT at certain points in the game you will level up whilst asleep.

What do you all think?

I'm not sure if anyone has said this but the safest bet for carefully controlling the player's level progression is to have all battles scripted. Random encounters can just be abolished. This does not mean that a majority of battles can't be skip-able, but it would cause the player to be denied the ability to 1.) cheat the system by pimping out their character through excessive grinding and 2.) it would make sure the player receives enough experience and stat boosts to push them through whatever test is put at the end of the area/level (bosses, hard enemy encounters, etc.). The test to you as a developer would be to make these end-of-level tests challenging but not restricting towards a player with low DPS. Maybe play with weaknesses and timing in battles. Getting rid of random encounters would keep boring grinding out of your game and would also keep the interest of the player much more engaged. It would also keep the player more engaged in a story if every battle was more unique. Dunno if you are willing to do that sort of thing, but I thought you might want to hear my two cents.

Edit: Your leveling up while asleep is also a good way to keep a lock on a player's progress, just make sure that it is impossible or difficult to avoid the events where the player character sleeps.