A Multi-Hour Epic

[HotfireLegend]

So for RMMV, I'm thinking of making a game that will take about ten hours to complete - probably another commercial one if Beyond Reality does well.

That said, it will likely take a very long time to make - but that's fine!

What I would like to discuss is how such a long adventure can be engaging for all that time.

I was thinking of having a huge emphasis on characters, beginning with an action scene and following on this action with the main character for about twenty minutes before calming down and introducing other characters. However, this is where I run into a bit of a roadblock - with a basic premise of having fled from somewhere and to make the way back again, it all ends up feeling a bit linear unless there are some sort of prerequisites (things to do in other areas) before proceeding, and allowing the player to do these things in any order.

But yeah, generally I'm looking for thoughts on what keeps you engaged to a multi-hour adventure as I need something to bounce from for how this will go about.

 

[LTN Games]

I never even made a game an hour long yet, but for me I believe if it would be about having another story mostly parallel to your main story, as well as digging into characters history, re visiting their hometowns, seeing old friends and family. Sort of how ff7 does it. By the end of disc 1 you know just about every characters story. I also believe you need to have a good balance, you know sometimes game should not be easy sailing straight through, there should be just the right amount of balance where the player feels he should go explore an area and do a side quest just to gain that extra few levels to make the main quest easier. Doing just the right balance helps the player achieve more game time because they are a little more motivated to do a side quest before proceeding. There is a ton of things you can do to increase game time but I would say number 1 is to have a few sidestorys that connect with the main story, this way you have more options of where you want the game to go.

 

[Trumully]

I think an engaging adventure would be to have a lot of choice for your character as you could have many different ways of going through the story. And like LTN said,

Doing just the right balance helps the player achieve more game time because they are a little more motivated to do a side quest before proceeding.

, the right balance helps the player achieve more time going throughout the game because they are engaged with it and are motivated to do side-quests. I don't know if this makes sense, but these are just my thoughts about it.

 

[LTN Games]

I believe another important thing would be to have the player so immersed in dialouge they are not just speed reading but rather slowly flowing and reading while acting a voice in their minds, this will slow the game down for the player and they will more than likely spend more time with other NPCs because the dialouge is captivating and intresting, you'r always learning something new while exploring..

 

[Sonicboy95]

For me Story is what keeps me playing. A main story is good but side and character stories will keep people wanting
to know what happens next.

 

[Bizarre Monkey]

Charm and side characters being awesome is all I can suggest in good conscience.

 

[HotfireLegend]

So the general consensus is to have fleshed-out side stories as well as the main story?

 

[LTN Games]

Yea it really comes down to stories, and how balanced everything truly is.

 

[Trumully]

So the general consensus is to have fleshed-out side stories as well as the main story?

Yes. It is all about the lore and the story. But also the gameplay. Because thats the whole point of a game, right?

 

[HotfireLegend]

Alright, I'm making the story with a major focus on the characters - the hardest bit so far I think is actually moving the plot along. When you're writing for a film etc, there are other writers to bounce your ideas off from, and they can suggest consequences to certain people's actions - otherwise, it's like playing Chess with yourself and you get nowhere :|

So in the first town which the evil army has not yet invaded (I'm trying to describe it in a really cliche way to keep it spoiler free lol) you meet a mysterious underworld guy who runs a band of "thieves" or similar. How would one tie his relation to the overall plot together besides just helping the main characters leave and enter the village unnoticed? (Which is important, should it get invaded later as the guards at the gate might recognise them)

 

[LTN Games]

Maybe the underworld guy, had previous relations with the evil army, an ex soldier, or his family was killed by them which is why he created his own band of thieves, to get away from the evil army and help others in need, they just steal as a cover up.

 

[HotfireLegend]

Lol, lost traction again!

So basically the village is used as a safe zone, and then the party leave the village to continue to the next one.
But then I can't think of anything for them to do, any issues for them to run into, etc :P

I'm awful at midgames/midstories!

 

[Maebius]

What I would suggest, is build in a sort of "quest hub" for that town. Taking something like Skyrim as an example, each Hold has so many little mini-quests to "help the townsfolk". They don't really tie into the Main story arc much, "Please sir, my dog fell in the well, I'm scared of dark and my parents are busy at work, can you get him?" but adds a bit of flavor to the world.
Then, if you are really sneaky, have minor little foreshadowing clues around those side quests. (in the well is perhaps an old medal from the invading army, they weer here once before?!?). Best of luck!


Editing to add, don't over-do LOTS of mini quests that are unrelated to the Main Arc, in each town. That just gets irritating for "Completion-ists" like me who Must.Clear.All.Quest.Logs. But done with moderation are a fun relaxing task to distract you when the player isn't feeling "Advance the plot Nao!".
Also, of course, tying the little clues you uncover, like the rusty medal in the well, and perhaps that snippet of argument between Old Man BartleSmyth & the gardener about tracking mud into the house (that the gardener never enters), will tie in to the sneaky thief guy who is helpful later on to sneak in and out of town... (to make up an example)
[doublepost=1444915850,1444913656][/doublepost]:)

 

[Storytailor]

Lol, lost traction again!

So basically the village is used as a safe zone, and then the party leave the village to continue to the next one.
But then I can't think of anything for them to do, any issues for them to run into, etc :P

I'm awful at midgames/midstories!

If you ever want someone to bounce ideas off of, feel free to message me! I would say of all the video game development components, storytelling is a strength of mine. I've got a 10-20hr game in the planning and it's only taken a week and a half to figure out the entire story + side stories. Novel-writing for over a decade has helped. :D

In regards to your first inquiry, you'd be surprised at how quickly 10hrs of game play can go by! I just started FFIV, and from the very beginning up until I could finally fight monsters, it took me over 30min. I would say, depending on what your focus is for the game (questing, exploring, story), you should emphasize that core component. I'm story-driven, so I like to pace things with:
1) Emphasize main goal (locate person, save kidnapped kid, deliver bomb ring :c)
2) Release player to the environment (casual gamers tend to go A>B, completionists will comb the entire city)
2a) Have optional side quests, interesting tidbits (hide some lore in there, foreshadow things to come)
3) Major event/turning point (the person you find is a wanted man!, the kidnapping turns into a hostage situation and you have to sneak in, the delivery kills everyone in the village :'()
4) Progress/Press on! (the wanted man flees and you follow, you save the kid(s) but the villain gets away, you have to get the one surviving summoner to safety PX)

Rinse, and repeat. Essentially, it's just like storytelling: you have to give reasons to be where you need to be, and then push for your player to get somewhere new, always with a sense of urgency. In some cases it's not a huge rush, but other times you may force them with a timer to get the job done. Varying this gives the game a more natural feel, unless you're aiming for more of a Legend of Zelda flow (which still utilized the aforementioned steps, but does not quite vary its flow besides the beginning and the end). Whatever the case, be sure to always make it clear what the main goal is [returning to where you started], and what the secondary goals are [getting to the next checkpoint].

That's just my input, at least. :I

Edit: Also, what's your villain situation looking like?

 

[HotfireLegend]

Rinse, and repeat. Essentially, it's just like storytelling: you have to give reasons to be where you need to be, and then push for your player to get somewhere new, always with a sense of urgency. In some cases it's not a huge rush, but other times you may force them with a timer to get the job done. Varying this gives the game a more natural feel, unless you're aiming for more of a Legend of Zelda flow (which still utilized the aforementioned steps, but does not quite vary its flow besides the beginning and the end). Whatever the case, be sure to always make it clear what the main goal is [returning to where you started], and what the secondary goals are [getting to the next checkpoint].

That's just my input, at least. :I

Edit: Also, what's your villain situation looking like?

A wonderfully informative post!

I will be sure to message you to bounce ideas off from.

That's a good point with the villain situation though - I thought it was going well, then I realized just now that the villain doesn't really have an involvement beyond the intro and a few scattered parts of the story so far, but that probably isn't a bad thing as I should only be at the two hour point at this stage and villains aren't often present throughout the entire story.

Perhaps it could be that before the players are allowed to leave the village, the underworld guy has them do at least two side quests of their choice (with more available) and foreshadowing elements happen in each of these sidequests, revealing a bit of history. Then the main characters, haven proven themselves reliable, are offered to go on a sort of heist or whatever by the underworld guy, which of course leads to some sort of gathering being gatecrashed, and a plot element or plot twist is revealed, to do with the underworld guy or the foreshadowing elements from earlier. A big fight could break out, leading to the main character's first real kills (or something like that) and some character dev occurs, after which underworld guy (if he wasn't evil) apologizes and stuff, and then offers them unhindered travel to the next town which is through a dangerous area, etc, etc.

 

[Storytailor]

That's a good point with the villain situation though - I thought it was going well, then I realized just now that the villain doesn't really have an involvement beyond the intro and a few scattered parts of the story so far, but that probably isn't a bad thing as I should only be at the two hour point at this stage and villains aren't often present throughout the entire story.

A very good point, villains don't have to be present 24/7, especially near the beginning (unless they're what obviously caused the main protagonist's struggle). I would simply say that, for down the line, the more you develop your villain in your head now, the better you'll be equipped to incorporate him/her/it into your story when it feels right. Maybe have some "accidental" happenings that were, in fact, the bad guy's doing (that gets brought up later). >:D

Just to clarify, are you still near the beginning of the story? With the underworld guy getting players in and out of the town? That's the second town, not the first one that they got chased out of, right? I apologize, I'm not used to reading and posting in forums quite yet, so my brains a bit scattered reading through all this. xS

I would say if the underworld guy is a leader of a band of thieves, maybe he could offer to let the main characters join (which would give them access to leaving and entering the city safely) at the price of completing certain fetch quests for him. In my opinion, a head man like that wouldn't give choices, but you're the man with the vision. 8) After the mini-quests are done, and the player can leave town and all, you can progress to nearby areas, choose your adventure, and when a certain amount are done you find the one safe path back to your home? Let me know if this is sort of the feel of your game; an updated timeline would be perfect if you could post one! ^u^

 

[HotfireLegend]

Basically, I've planned out the starting town, the first dungeon, the first town and the second town, and the second town is where the underworld guy comes into play :)

The aim of the game is essentially to reclaim the Kingdom from the invaders, as covered in the prologue. Since it's in the prologue, I'm not too bothered about spoilers - but basically what I'm planning so far is that the main character's father was in a war where the invaders attacked a castle to the North and he was enlisted to defend it, but it didn't go well - and so he flees to the Southern town where the game proper starts, and gameplay passes onto the new main character. However, the army appears to be following close behind and moving South as well, so things happen and the main characters have to flee, but they are given the task by their father to, metaphorically, "cut the head off the snake".

EDIT: There are a couple of other bits not mentioned in the paragraph above but these are plot twists I'm withholding for now :)

 

[Storytailor]

Basically, I've planned out the starting town, the first dungeon, the first town and the second town, and the second town is where the underworld guy comes into play :)

The aim of the game is essentially to reclaim the Kingdom from the invaders, as covered in the prologue. Since it's in the prologue, I'm not too bothered about spoilers - but basically what I'm planning so far is that the main character's father was in a war where the invaders attacked a castle to the North and he was enlisted to defend it, but it didn't go well - and so he flees to the Southern town where the game proper starts, and gameplay passes onto the new main character. However, the army appears to be following close behind and moving South as well, so things happen and the main characters have to flee, but they are given the task by their father to, metaphorically, "cut the head off the snake".

EDIT: There are a couple of other bits not mentioned in the paragraph above but these are plot twists I'm withholding for now :)

Understood, so they've arrived to the second town and are hoping they aren't, for a third time, going to be forced to flee? The first twist that comes to mind is that you carry out the underworld man's deeds but, after coming back from a second or third quest, find that the town's been occupied - with the thieves' hideout still undiscovered, you can utilize its secret passages through town to find the leader and kill him (you're an honorary thief-man after all now, right?) in the night! But of course, something could always go wrong... or maybe the guy you sneak up on doesn't end up being the knight you're looking for (invaders were a task force rather than the army that had been chasing you)? You'd be in quite the conundrum. xP

 

[CynicSyndrome]

I should preface this by saying that i was brand new to rpg maker when MV came out on steam. I have spent 18 months on my game world with the goal of making it as interactive as possible and maximizing re-playability. I planned for several different worlds each differently themed with its own towns, roads, dungeons, and secret places. It really feels like some days I get further from the end than I was the day before. one big idea or breakthrough opens a whole new realm of possibilities. i have not seen any rpg maker games that come close to the scope of the game I have planned, and I am wondering is that because it is not worth the effort? how much time is too much to spend on one project? are there many players who will spend more money on a huge game? am I wasting my time?