That's it. I'm out. (for now)

[Zebestian]

Recent events have shown me that this place isn't as awesome and amazing as I thought it was in the beginning. I was among the first 100 members and I thought this forum might become a real alternative to the established ones out there. Man, have I ever been wrong. You cannot expect to become popular and a true alternative if you constantly put stones in the ways of content creators. Let me specify what I mean...
Upon founding the Resource Team, @Xyphien thought it would be a good idea if all the artists on the team make the work available unlimitedly both of non-commercial and commercial use, so basically giving up all the rights on their work without seeing anything in return. It took a little convincing but that idea was eventually given up in favour of the artists who would be allowed to decide their own terms of use. That was cool and all and I thought maybe Xyphien learned something from that but... boy, was I ever wrong.
How can it be that on a site where content creation is one of the most essential parts you take away the rights on that content from the artists and make it your own. Because that's basically what the terms of service state. Simply worded they say "you give up all copyright on your work while still retaining full copyright" and I don't know how that's supposed to work. And yet I get responses like this:

I'm not planning on using anyone's work without them telling me they can.
Said member in my first post specifically made content for the site, and I won't be removing it, and using the TOS to state that it is why I won't be as she tried bringing up the legality of it.

So... how does something being made "specifically for the site" change the terms in your favour? Something being made specifically for something is not an automatic permission to infinitely use that work. If I made a song for a game and don't give up my copyright, I could still say "no I don't want you to use that song, I changed my mind, sorry" and they'd have to remove it - everything else is stealing. Period. And that is where the legality comes into play. In my eyes @Amysaurus's claims are completely justified and you @Xyphien should really oblige because everything else makes it seem like you're just out for some childish revenge trip and that you're just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. And I don't like that stink. So, that's it. I'm out.

 

[sage]

I'm not saying you're wrong for wanting to leave, but you still seem confused. I'll explain it as simply as I can.

The events:
1. Amy joins the site and agrees to the terms of service (basically signing a contract saying that RMMV can publish/use the stuff she makes)
2. Amy makes a drawing and a background
3. Amy tells Xyphien to take it down (i.e. revoke permission)
4. Xyphien says no, he doesn't have to (Amy "signed" something that specifically says that RMMV is allowed to use it and that the permission to use it is irrevokable)

And as for copyrights:
A copyright owner has the freedom to do whatever they want with a piece of content. They can use it, sell it, stick it in collections, and so on.
RMMV is being allowed to publish and republish the content, while the creator maintains the copyright ownership.

If this weren't in the Terms of Service, then RMMV wouldn't be able to have an onsite resource section. Everyone would have to provide their own links to download the resources offsite because RMMV wouldn't be able to publish them.

 

[Companion Wulf]

The thing with copyright is it's still a very grey area, but there are certain things that are quite clear-cut. If you create something (regardless if it's writing, graphics or music) you by default have the copyrights to it. This is loosely named "creative copyright". You can't give up rights to a copyright for whatever use AND retain full copyrights (and I don't think that's entirely what is meant though). Even if stated in a TOS that a website has rights to redistribute your works as it deems fit, you still have to give permission. If you don't give that permission, it can't - and won't - be used. If you design your own Terms where something you submit can only be used for non-commercial use, then that's the only thing it can be used for (otherwise, a DMCA Takedown can occur if certain things can be proven, and that's not actually an easy or short process). BUT as Sage has said, if you upload a resource you are binding yourself to a "contract", thereby agreeing with the TOS. You'll still actually own the copyrights to the original, making you free to do whatever you want with it, even sell it, but once you've submitted something to be included as a pack or as an individual song, the contractual part is still binding.

 

[Zebestian]

@sage, my problem is not so much with the terms themselves but rather their execution and Xyphien's... let's call it "unprofessional" behaviour. He is showing zero respect for Amy, her work and her rights on that work and that's what's irking me here. Sorry if I haven't been clear enough. It was the same back when we were introducing RT - we had to smack some common sense into Xyphien and had to tell him why it is important to respect artists, their work and their rights. I was under the impression that this was a friendly forum and that people can talk about things. But when people just go into stubborn mode and won't even listen, disrespecting a fellow artist then sorry... I can't stay.

 

[sage]

You can't give up rights to a copyright for whatever use AND retain full copyrights (and I don't think that's entirely what is meant though).

I think the Terms of Service implies on-site use. Republication, such as showing it off and stuff, as well as the resource section.

@sage, my problem is not so much with the terms themselves but rather their execution and Xyphien's... let's call it "unprofessional" behaviour. He is showing zero respect for Amy, her work and her rights on that work and that's what's irking me here

I knew that was probably the reason. I think there's slightly more to it than that, but that's for the two of them to sort out.
I don't blame you for wanting to leave because your friend was wronged though.

 

[Companion Wulf]

@sage I believe so. But that's still giving the forum permission to use, not obtain. That's where I was going with that.

@Kaimen It's unfortunate that you feel this is a necessary step. You have to do what you feel is right for you (and maybe others affected as well). It would be sad to see you go.

 

[Zebestian]

@Kaimen It's unfortunate that you feel this is a necessary step. You have to do what you feel is right for you (and maybe others affected as well). It would be sad to see you go.

I do. As long as this forum's administration can't be professional and respectful I do feel that this is a necessary step.

 

[Companion Wulf]

@Kaimen I hope you can find at least some mutually peaceable solution. Either way, I sincerely hope things work out for you.

 

[Cunechan]

...but you'll take some time to sneak in here ? Many people will miss you I hope they'll just change the tos. Good luck, we'll miss you

 

[Zebestian]

...but you'll take some time to sneak in here ?

Depends. I definitely won't be as active as I've been so far. I might make my return when the administration finally get their act together and don't act like children anymore.
[doublepost=1456434119,1456354912][/doublepost]Update: I made up my mind. I'm gonna stay. I decided to give this place a second chance and maybe, just maaaaybe the administration is going to realize that some things have to be changed. Been a bit too emotional about this whole matter anyway. Now, @MinisterJay since you're a mod now how about you work your magic and close this thread for me? I don't think it's gonna be needed much longer.

 

[MinisterJay]

Glad you are with us Kaimen. I appreciate your gifted talents. Shabaaam! And the thread is closed.